Cheadle and Gatley Lib Dems are moving
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by Lib Dem team on 8 January, 2010
All the local councillors, plus our MP, were invited to a meeting today about the plans to improve the Kingsway/Gatley Road junction. Myself, Cllr Pam King and Mark Hunter MP were able to make it, along with representatives of Stockport Council and Manchester Urban Traffic Control.
We had a full discussion about the junction itself, plus some related issues including traffic on the South Park Road estate.
What I’ll do here is to first detail the plans for the junction, then go into more detail.
Three steps to improve the junction
1. Reduce the traffic light cycle time
The current cycle is variable, up to a maximum of three minutes. This allows the maximum amount of traffic to go straight ahead in each phase, but means that only 3-4 vehicles from Gatley and Cheadle can turn right onto Kingsway.
The cycle is to be reduced so the maximum length is two minutes, not three. That might not sound like a lot, but it means 50% more cars can turn right from Cheadle & Gatley (3-4 from each side every two minutes instead of every three). The modelling that’s been done suggests that will make a bigger difference that we might think. The planners believe it will lead to overall much shorter queues to turn right.
It should also make it slightly quicker for pedestrians to the cross the road (since there’ll be less time to wait for the next gap in the traffic).
Another benefit is that this is zero-cost. There’s no roadworks or anything like that, it’s just a change in the computer system.
A small downside is that it slightly reduces the number of vehicles that can go straight ahead (as each phase change takes time) but the planners think that should be minimal.
This change will be made in the next few weeks.
2. Improving flow from M60 slip road onto Kingsway
Traffic leaving the M60 to join the A34 Southbound currently gets squeezed down to one lane. Years ago it was two lanes, but it was taken down to one after a nasty fatal accident.
We’re all keen to get this safely back up to two lanes and improve the movement of traffic onto Kingsway.
This is being looked at by the Highways Agency, along with others, and there are still quite a few questions, not least whether funding is available.
The general idea is to have two lanes from the slip road meeting Kingsway, and to have traffic lights on both Kingsway and the slip road so each one goes in turn.
3. Re-ordering the lanes on Kingsway northbound
This is another one still at the planning stage, although the idea’s been around for a while.
If you think of driving north along the A34 from Cheadle Royal towards Manchester, you’ve got three lanes as you come up the Gatley Road junction. The left hand lane is for Gatley, the South Park Road estate, M60 westbound and M60 eastbound. The other two lanes are for Manchester. That results in far more traffic in the inside lane.
What we’d like is a more balanced approach to use the three lanes as effectively as possible. That might, for example, mean the inside lane being for Gatley, South Park Road Estate and M60 westbound, the middle lane for M60 eastbound and the outside lane for Manchester.
That should result in traffic using the three lanes more evenly, meaning more vehicles getting through the junction in each phase.
One issue is cyclists going into Manchester. We don’t want to push cyclists into the outside lane, which is dangerous for everyone. I think there are ways round that with sensible signing and alternative routes, but it needs more work.
Background and why no right filters?
This is possibly the busiest junction in Greater Manchester, certainly one of the top few. Were it being designed now, it would be wider and have right-turn phases (filters). Ideally, for the volume of traffic, there would be a flyover for north-south traffic.
None of those are realistic at the moment, as you can imagine.
The planners modelled putting in a right filter from Cheadle, or from Gatley, or both at the same time (something which you might have noticed both the Lib Dems and our political opponents have been keen on).
The modelling suggests none of those options are viable without major alterations to the junction (the sort that would involve knocking down lots of houses!).
If you put in a right filter just from one side or the other, the other side jams up. Put in a right filter from Cheadle and the queue on the Gatley side gets much longer, and vice versa.
So why not have a right filter from both at the same time, which is what I’ve been calling for?
The argument is that it’s simply not safe to implement that on a junction of this size. It would, we’re told, be too confusing for motorists and so too dangerous. It would also lead to longer queues on Kingsway, and backing up onto the M60.
This is based on experiences with other junctions. Whilst I’m keen to have a filter if we can, I have to accept the findings of the experts and I certainly don’t want the junction to become more dangerous.
Conclusion
I’d like to thank the Council Officers and the people from Manchester Urban Traffic Control and the Highways Agency who are clearly taking this issue seriously and working hard to improve what may be Greater Manchester’s busiest junction.
We’ve got a solution that, the modelling suggests, will significantly improve things for people coming from Cheadle and Gatley and turning right. If we’re really lucky, it will also help those going left and ahead from Gatley by reducing the pinch point on Gatley Road near Torkington Road.
Longer term, and subject to funding, we hope that the plans to improve the flow of traffic along Kingsway in both directions work out too.
So although we seem as far as ever from getting a right filter, we are making progress and we will be seeing real changes which, we all hope, will improve the junction further.
14 Comments
Great research! I understand it’s hard to get the perfect solution without rebuilding the whole junction. I believe the proposed ~2 minute maximum of waiting time would improve the situation considerably.
What if you do something like this pattern? Every second time give Gatley or Cheadle 10-15 seconds extra while the other direction is on red.
As of now part of the problem is that say Gatley right-turners will have to wait for the huge queue coming from Cheadle – and due to the two lanes it’s not easy to see if it’s clear to turn right or not.
As the two directions go red at about the same time, there’s almost no time to clear the right-turners queue. (Specially since straight-forwarders from the opposite direction still go on amber..)
So let’s say at first round Cheadle will go red, and Gatley gets 10-15 seconds extra to turn right. Next round Gatley will go red first. This avoids the need for turn filters, but still allows each direction to empty out. Each side will queue a bit extra 50% of the time – this will be every 4th minute.
Thankyou for keeping us so well informed about this issue.
It would seem to me that the timings on the traffic lights should be put into place first and then a judgement made about further improvements needed.
I remember years ago going to a public meeting about the junction when the planners dismissed any sort of right filter completely from either side as a danger. Why would it be confusing for motorists?
Are there examples of where a filter from both sides has caused accidents?
Iain as you say, doesn’t sound much so let’s wait and see what experience brings. Currently people are taking greater and greater risks in turning right on amber / red, so anything which improves it is good. On a retrospective note, I well remember going to a meeting a few years ago when this junction was discussed. AT that time an underpass was the most expensive option for N/S traffic at 250,000 – seems a snip now!!
£250k does sound very cheap – I’d be staggered if an underpass cost anywhere near as little as £250k these days!
Thank you for your update & in fact for all your input on local issues, in general.
For the record, we never go to the right turn from Gatley onto Kingsway Southbound unless it’s absolutely clear of traffic (e.g. at night)
It’s quicker for us (off Schools Hill) to go straight on into Cheadle, which now there’s a right filter at the White Hart, is quicker, down Wilmslow Road and back up Schools Hill!
Thank you for keeping us so well informed. I was always under the impression that a right filter was a non-starter from a Highways Agency point of view and also cost and disruption but it is helpful to get it in print. What a pity that Sainsburys and John Lewis and the other buildings on the Cheadle Royal site were allowed to go ahead. I know that they are all good for business but they compound a bad situation into an impossible one.
You mentioned the traffic on the South Park Road estate in your opening – anything worth reporting?
Don’t forget about the residents of South Park Road estate trying to exit the estate onto the A34 Northbound when ‘tinkering’ with the traffic lights cycle. There is a danger the residents will become trapped if there is insufficient traffic free time from the lights heading north.
Greg – I did raise that issue in the meeting. The planning guys think it won’t cause additional problems (though it won’t improve either).
Re-organising the northbound lanes should help you by reducing the amount of traffic coming at you in the inside lane.
Glyn – Hoping to do a post tomorrow, but don’t expect anything too exciting.
The traffic off the motorway onto Kingsway at busy times often makes two lanes as it is often the only way to get across to the right hand lane. It’s horrible either way and I now avoid it by getting off the motorway at Stockport and driving through Cheadle which can take ages but at least avoids the perils of exiting onto Kingsway and trying to move across two lanes in heavy traffic on a wing and a prayer.
I have experienced all directions tto this junction and the wait in all directions is about the same at 5.30 – 6.30. At this time it would be foolish to decrease the traffic queing on the M60 slip as at the moment it backs up almost onto the M60 clockwise carriageway. If the number of cars queing here was to increase by 30% (by decreasing the flow time from 3 to 2 minutes) it would mean ques forming on the M60 at a point were a lot of cars are changing lanes, this is very dangerous. In the morning the only inbalance seems to be theright hand filter from Cheadle. This could be cured by giving this direction 10-15 seconds extra over the oncoming traffic from Gatley on alternate sequences.
A god idea to change the cycle time of the lights – but I fear that more is needed during peak times.
It takes an age to turn right southbound and more often than not I (as well as many others I note!) just go straight over the junction into Cheadle and divert up to Bruntwood Park meeting the Sainsbury/John Lewis roundabout to get back on to the A34 southbound.
Still – lets give this a go and see what happens – at least something is being done to try to resolve the problem.
I really hope that you’ll continue to push the highways people over the “both ways filter”. I really don’t see how it can be more dangerous to have it regulated on the lighting sequence than it is “taking your chances” with the oncoming traffic as now.
[…] The most promising option looked to be changing the phase from three minutes to two. I wrote in more detail about what it would mean and how it should help here. […]