Cheadle and Gatley Lib Dems are moving
Graham, Tom and Ian
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What were the local issues four decades ago?
Cheadle and Gatley Lib Dems are moving
Cheadle and Gatley Lib Dems are moving
What were the local issues four decades ago?
Cheadle and Gatley Lib Dems are moving
Kingsway junction latest
by Lib Dem team on 11 November, 2014
The Kingsway/Gatley Road junction is probably the biggest single issue in Cheadle & Gatley – it’s the one people mention most often on the doorstep when we call round. We’d love to have an easy fix! If we could find a way to get a right filter, or improve the whole junction, that would work then we’d have done it years ago.
Unfortunately, it’s turned out not to be that easy. We know a right-filter isn’t on the cards – even a few seconds would make other queues a good deal longer (we’ve tested this) and the Highways Agency simply won’t allow us to do anything that could see more traffic backing onto the motorway. (It’s also been suggested we could have a right filter and take the time off the Gatley Road lights, but that would see longer queues on the Cheadle/Gatley sides, and those longer queues could stop cars getting into the filter lane to turn right and so become self-defeating).
Just because there’s no easy fix doesn’t mean we’re giving up – not for a moment.
A few months ago we had the white lines moved so people could pull further across the road when waiting to turn right. That was in response to complaints that people couldn’t see gaps in the traffic because their view was blocked by other vehicles. From my own experience it seems to help – not every time, as there aren’t always gaps to take advantage of – but it seems more common to me that five or six cars turn right instead of three or four (or even two!).
We’ve also been pressing for a wider study. There are only two real solutions to traffic at the junction: more road or fewer cars. Moving people onto bus, train, tram or bike isn’t a quick fix, nor is finding alternative routes for people to get onto the motorway, but together they may offer the best long-term option so we’re having all of that looked at.
The junction itself is managed by Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) with the Council and the Highways Agency both having input. Here’s what TfGM tell us is the latest progress from their side:
35 CommentsAs you are aware, this junction is one of the busiest in Greater Manchester and its existing size and layout means that it cannot deal with the levels of traffic using the junction at peak times or when traffic flows are high. This results in congestion and delays. The junction operation is further complicated by its proximity to the M60 off slip road and every effort is made to ensure traffic queuing back to the main motorway carriageway is minimised, as this presents significant safety issues.
I can assure you that extensive work has been undertaken to maximise the traffic flows through the junction and the M60 off slip junction. They operate under sophisticated control system that optimizes timings on each arm throughout the day to ensure delays and congestion are minimised for all highway users. The junction timings are inspected at regular intervals to ensure they continue to minimise levels of disruption, and the junction programming was recently amended to address specific congestion issues during the evening peak.
The aspiration to install ‘right turn filter arrow’ on the traffic signals for traffic turning north out of Gatley Rd onto Kingsway has been considered in great detail, but unfortunately is not possible due to the current junction layout and would result in greatly increased congestion for all other movements. Alterations to the road markings at this location have recently been implemented by Stockport MBC in an attempt to improve the right turn manoeuvre.
To improve our ability to monitor the operation of the junctions, TfGM (UTC) have successfully bid for additional Highways Agency funding. This will enable an additional CCTV camera to be erected on the motorway slip road. This will mean remote monitoring can be undertaken to ensure queuing on the slip road affects the main motorway carriageway as little as possible. Interventions, such as minor traffic signal timing alteration, will be undertaken immediately without the need to directly visit site.
Meetings have also taken place between officers from TfGM (UTC), Stockport MBC and the Highways Agency to develop potential schemes to improve the situation in the area. These have included a request for the Highways Agency to improve the lane merge between the east and west bound motorway off-slips. As a result of these meetings, a study of the area is now being undertaken to identify potential interventions and seek funding resources to undertake any potential schemes that are identified.
The Highways Agency have also commissioned a detailed simulation model of the junctions which will enable potential schemes to be tested to ensure the effects of any interventions are fully understood.
The request for a ‘Keep Clear’ at the exit to South Park Road estate has also been passed to the Highways Agency as they are responsible for its implementation.
There will never be a solution to this perennial problem – until you councillors ‘dig yourselves into a big hole’ !…
An underpass (as opposed to any flyover) for the A34 be the only long term solution.
Would still like residents parking bay for 6,8,10 Northenden Road can never park when I get home from work volume of traffic then takeaway customers and the vets etc and at the weekends it’s a nightmare!
With some scepticism, having read Iain’s recent post, I joined the right turn lane from Cheadle to Kingsway as third car in the queue just after 7.15 pm on Thursday, 13th of November. I was pleasantly surprised. About half way through the cycle in our favour, the first 3 cars managed to turn. I followed the process in my mirror and at least 3 more cars managed to turn behind me. It seems that I shall need to use my Plan B less frequently (this involves accessing the westbound M60 by ignoring the right turn if there are too many cars in the right turn lane at Kingsway and, instead, driving through Gatley and Sharston before turning right at the roundabout where the M56 crosses the A560).
I strongly support the view that we need an underpass – if we lived South, of Watford, it would have been opened at least 20 years ago.
There is one further measure that could increase the number of right turns from Cheadle. Frequently, would-be right turners have to wait for a car in the left lane from Gatley to pass in front of them. At most times. there appears to be a longer period allocated to left-turners from Gatley than the volume of traffic requires. If this left-turning traffic could cease a few seconds before the other lanes coming from Gatley, traffic from Cheadle that wishes to turn right could use this period to get a few more cars through the junction. Alternatively, if left-turning traffic from Gatley were allocated to the left-most northbound lane, and traffic from Cheadle were allocated to the other two lanes, they could turn simultaneously and sort themselves out and merge into their intended lanes over the next 150 yards or so. Alternate merging of dense traffic into their desired lanes for the onward journey is not a new concept. I first encountered it about 50 years ago at the entrances to tunnels under the Hudson River from New Jersey to Manhattan Island. If the Yanks can operate this successfully, then it is surely not beyond the wit of Stopfordians to learn it. I think I might have encountered a junction in the UK that uses the same principle, probably in the West Midlands. No doubt the DoT could advise you and you could go to see it in operation unless they provide you with an explanatory video.
Apart from the problem faced by drivers, I often try to cross the road on foot. The very long periods before the lights change mean that you can often get absolutely soaked by cars splashing you as you stand and wait for ages. It also feels quite unsafe as cars shoot past and you are stood so close to them. Is it not possible to build a footbridge, as there is down at Parrs Wood? It would certainly help solve that problem.
Cars are not getting into the correct lane for M60 towards Manchester.
The signs are not clear enough. An overhead gantry is needed much further back guiding cars into the correct lanes sooner.
How many pedestrians would use a footbridge, Dawn? A great deal of money would be spent to very little effect.
A lot of people would use a footbridge Les. A recent study showed an average of 1052 pedestrian journeys over 24 hours, either Gatley-Cheadle, plus Cheadle-Gatley, 96% 50years or below so plenty of people would use it, wake up.
I’m awake, Camilla. Why don’t you just express your opinion as I was. There is no need to be rude. Those statistics don’t tell us how many people would use a bridge. Only the number who might use a bridge. I think very few would. Have you ever seen anyone use the bridge at Parrswood?
Plenty Les, particularly school children who bene3fit from the Parrswood bridge.
An underpass may be the only answer
Funny. The original planning considered an underpass, but at the time it was considered too expensive at , I think, £250,000. Probably cost five times that now!
One other crazy thought: perhaps when the much vaunted SEMMMS is opened, we could close the junction here off the motorway!
Awaiting the completion of the ‘Stockport Southern Bypass’ with increasing impatience !
We can but hope that a good many of those ‘lemming’ motorists who come through Cheadle / Gatley on the A560 – only in order to join the A34 / M60 – will be of bovver to other areas when it is finished !!
Giveover…its costing £250M to put up a few traffic lights on the M60…its got to be way way more than that!!
No, I meant the original planning for the bypass when it was built- quite a few years ago now!!
What I can’t understand is how it has got so much worse in the last 4 or 5 months. I come off the M56 from Chester at about 6.40 (and what has happened to the M56 recently? It’s a crawl for 10 miles) and the traffic is regularly backing up to Longley Lane. It takes a good 20 minutes to get to the lights at the Kingsway Junction.
I know the economy has picked up recently, but surely it doesn’t account for the extra traffic recently?
Given the ever increasing traffic volumes in general and no doubt the A555 bypass will increase traffic on/off M60/A34 junction, an Underpass needs to be considered as a matter of urgency – could it be be added to the SEMMMS project?
It will all be sorted when we get our very own mayor wont it Iain! because creating another layer of offialdom with no powers whatsoever over the above mentioned agencies will really get things moving regarding our issues regarding the Kingsway/Gatley lights.
May i even suggest that you Iain and your team pull your finger out and sort it soon because this problem that you cannot seem to resolve will get worse when the new housing estates are built in Woodford and near Handforh Dean, or is it just me that thinks you need to stop back slapping and nodding when required when dealing with these agencies and grow a pair.
Dear A Pain,
You might think that, I certainly don’t (and have never suggested for a moment than more powers for GM would fix the Kingsway junction). Of course, as I’ve mentioned before, a Mayor for Greater Manchester isn’t creating another layer of government at all, but perhaps you’ve not troubled yourself to read my replies to your previous comments.
I do think it’s wonderful though that you believe it’s something councillors can just “pull our fingers out and fix”. What a world that would be, where we could just work a bit harder, or shout a bit louder, and sort out those sorts of problems!
Keep on believing, my friend 🙂
Iain please do not refer to me as your friend.
How about I don’t refer to you as “my friend” and you don’t misrepresent my views on the Mayor for Greater Manchester 🙂
Tha be nobody’s friend – just a Pain !
Kingsway leading up to the right turn on Gatley road is absolutely pathetic, sometimes it only lets 6 cars turn right and then ur waiting for ages, something really needs to be do the right filter isn’t times properly and the slip junction joining onto kingsway is awful very badly planned and designed !
Well at least you have a right turn! And we’ve re- hashed this a hundred times, as Iain says, its not SMBCs control, its the Highways Agency. Badly planned, it is, but it needs a massive amount of money to sort it and since the HA stipulate what happens, I suggest they pay for any improvements!
As a regular walker across the A34 – Gatley to/from Cheadle I rarely use the crossing by Gatley Road simply because of the long wait/polluted air/noise/etc. preferring to use either the South Park Rd. or Broadway tunnels. Longer walks but no slower in journey time. Of course no-one in the area, Councillors or our MP have the authority to prevent the huge increase in A34 traffic that will follow from Cheshire East Council building plans. An underpass for the A34 is the only practical answer but I expect the invention of instantaneous matter transport will come first!
Iain,
I have lived in the area for over 10 years, and have “experienced” this junction for most of this time, plus I have seen the emotion that it generates.
Can I propose that we have some sort of meeting where the interested parties come and explain their side of this? (i.e. some accountability!).
We have had many “surveys” ; “latest modelling techniques” ; and road/light changes – that have really only made small differences.
If we understand the details of the surveys/modelling etc, maybe this will help us to understand what can realistically be done to resolve this situation. (and keep costs to a minimum).
Hi Gary – we’ve done that before: we had a public Area Committee meeting where the people who did the modelling came and showed it and went through the arguments with everyone. I think it would be a good idea to do something along those lines again if we can.
Thanks.
I think we need some “pro-active” suggestions from the “experts”.
All I can see is reasons “why we cant” do something to resolve it or failed attempts.
But we also need to be clear on what we are asking them to resolve…………..
Coming from Gatley up to the traffic lights at Kingsway to turn Left , the inside lane is too short & many a time it is blocked by vehicles in the middle lane, weith the result that the traffic lights change several times before being able to turn left, – the only solution is to extend the inside lane backwards up to the railway bridge, but this would entail taking away some of peoples gardens – perhaps a substantial amount of compensation might be acceptable ?
PS I have lived in Gatley for 59 years.
A big issue, as such, will need a big solution. The “planners” are trying to resolve this problem at a level it existed a few years ago, rather than what this problem is now or will become in the few years to come. Underpass is the only solution.
It is so bad I am looking for a new job, even if that may mean working lesser number of hours (so much for promoting work & economy) ……… before I burst an aneurysm sitting in my car.
While an underpass always sounds enticing, it may not be a workable solution (even if we had the money to build it – £50million or more). The distance between the junction and the motorway slip roads might be too short to get back up to grade after going under the junction and it might just shift the problem up the road to Parrs Wood – the same traffic jams, but in a slightly different place.
Vik – I can assure you that the planners are looking at the problem as it is now and may be in years to come. That makes it even more difficult to find a solution, but it needs to be done.
You never know – unless you try – know what tha means ? Councillor !
That’s why we’re trying all the options, Mark, and will continue to do so.
Maybe it would be better if Iain stopped posting updates on this subject and we all just get on and deal with this junction in our own ways? All this post seems to achieve (apart from good information from Iain) is to create a great deal of hot air and no viable (i.e. economic) solutions. There are no local-community-acceptable solutions to this. Every tweek or change at that junction affects someone that lives locally. Who wants to have a compulsory purchase order to turn their house into a spagetti-junction? A better way to handle this complex subject would be for the complainants (sorry – interested parties) to work with – with – the local and national government agencies to develop and evaluate the big solutions that will be necessary to fix this junction properly for the next ten or more years.
Just a thought.
I agree, there needs to be some urgent priority on this issue which has got worse during 2014. A footbridge would be a welcome addition, people would of course use it rather than having to wait an eternity for the lights to change and cross safely.
Maybe extending the junction at Roscoes roundabout to both directions on the M60 would provide an alternative access to M60 east/ anticlockwise. Instead of turning right at gatley road and could reduce the traffic at those lights